The Future of Rural Water Systems

Safe water is a promise only as strong as the people, plans, and budgets behind it. We sit down with Brandon Bowman, State Programs Director at the Oklahoma Rural Water Association, to unpack a practical blueprint that helps small and rural utilities turn chronic stress into measurable resilience. The Long-Range Sustainability Program (LRSP) reframes “sustainability” as day-in, day-out reliability built on three inseparable pillars: managerial, financial, and technical capacity. No jargon, no silver bullets—just a structured commitment that boards, managers, and operators own together.

Brandon shares how a statewide alliance of regulators and technical assistance providers mapped root causes of persistent violations and found the trail leading back to leadership and funding, not just equipment. From asset management and emergency planning to rate analysis and governance training, the LRSP guides systems through the hard work of aligning priorities and paying true costs. The payoffs are concrete: capacity scores up more than 25 percent, water loss down about 40 percent, stronger operating ratios, and an average revenue increase of $639,000 per year among participants. That’s new generators purchased, staff retained, leaks fixed, and fewer boil orders.

We also dig into the human side. Rural teams are stretched thin, retirements are accelerating, and recruitment is tough when wages lag. Brandon names the risk—too small to survive—and makes the case for funding what reliability really costs. He highlights policy levers like SRF scoring preferences and consent orders that substitute fines with LRSP completion, turning compliance into actual improvement. Along the way, we talk transparency, social media pressure, and why posting plans online can build trust and momentum rather than fear.

If you care about water utility resilience, public health, and the future of small-town infrastructure, this conversation offers a tested model others can adopt. Curious how your system can benefit—or where to start? Subscribe, share this episode with a colleague, and leave a review with the one change you’d make first.

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Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:06

This is the Water Foresight Podcast powered by the Aquilaris Group, where we anticipate, frame, and shape the future of water through strategic foresight. Welcome to the Water Foresight Podcast. Today's guest is Brandon Bowman, who's the State Programs Director for the Oklahoma Rural Water Association. Brandon, welcome to the Water Foresight Podcast. It is a privilege to have you with us today. Dr.

What ORWA Does For Small Systems

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Klein, thank you for the invitation. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Well, Brandon, I want you to tell us a little bit about your background and your work at the Oklahoma Rural Water Association. Oh, I'm happy to.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I'm State Programs Director at the Oklahoma Rural Water Association, and I oversee uh the organization's um sustainability contracts. Uh we focus on helping small and rural water and wastewater systems with all aspects of uh resilience and sustainability. Um, we have a very uh robust uh water loss auditing and link detection program. We perform many, many rate analysis analyses to help systems set rates where they need to be. Uh, we develop emergency response plans. We we put together uh asset management plans. We we try to do it all. Anything to support system sustainability, um, that is what we do. And uh I appreciate you reaching out to me and giving me an opportunity to talk about one of our uh centerpiece programs. It's our long-range uh sustainability program or the LRSP. Uh really proud of the work that we're doing there, and I'm excited to talk about it today.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Well, no problem. You also have a long and distinguished career with uh the environmental regulator in Oklahoma. Am I correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Uh yeah, I'm uh I got my start back in uh 1999 with the Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality, and I was there for uh 21 years. I was uh a complaint investigator, um an environmental specialist, a local specialist. And toward the end of my career, I was uh I was very lucky to be uh part of their uh new capacity development section, uh, where they were making a push to um help systems with technical assistance or technical managerial financial assistance, which was a switch for me coming from being a regulator. And then I was blessed and lucky enough to uh move over to the Oklahoma Rural Water Association back in 2021 to uh head up their work. And uh that's where I've been ever since.

Defining Managerial, Financial, Technical Capacity

SPEAKER_00 2:31

Wow, that's great. You know, one of the things I'll admit to you is I don't think we at the podcast have done a very good job of talking about the small and medium-sized water systems that are so prevalent across America. And you know, we have what 50,000 give or take community water systems, and what, 80 to 90 percent of them are small to medium-sized systems that are uh typically uh found across America, you know, suburbs and even out beyond the suburbs, and they don't get a lot of respect, I think. And and sometimes people think their rural water systems are are the ones that are messing up a lot. They get a bad rap, and I I'm not so sure that's a fair, fair assessment. Your role is to help these systems, as I understand it. And you mentioned a term that I'm not sure many of our listeners understand, but the capacity the capacity development. Uh, that is not a a quantitative program. We're not trying to uh build a a uh big tank to hold things. It is a term of art that embodies uh three words that you and I probably talk about a lot, and that's uh MFT or managerial, financial, and technical capacity. Can you can you take us through what that term means and what MFT means to not just the utility, but maybe to the regulators and to the customers? What is so significant about capacity and these these these terms MFT, if you will? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

So yeah, MFT stands for managerial capacity, financial capacity, and technical capacity. It's um it's the three foundational pillars of a resilient and sustainable water system. And you know what I mean by resilient and sustainable is a water system that's able to provide safe and plentiful water, or a wastewater system that's able to provide environmentally and economically sound treatment of wastewater no matter what. An ice storm happens, you know, takes down the power lines, the system has a backup power generator. Uh the price of diesel goes from$3 a gallon to$6 a gallon, the system has a contingency fund to help pay, help uh absorb that cost and keep in operations. No matter what happens, you know, tornadoes, ice storms, you know, COVID, you name it, a resilient and um and a sustainable system can weather the storming and keep working. Yeah, but you know, technical management financial, there are three pillars or three things that boards and operators and managers uh must pay attention to to support that system. Yeah. And you know, for the longest time, particularly my background as a regulator, um, there was a strong emphasis on technical capacity. You know, we were looking to does the system have access to uh source water that's of appropriate quality and quantity to meet their need? Is the infrastructure of an appropriate condition to meet the requirements of the Safe Drinking Water Act? Are the operators getting appropriate training to be able to do their jobs effectively, provide safe water? That's all under technical capacity. It's all very important, right? But it's only one-third of the equation. We also need good managerial capacity, and by that I mean we need an active and engaged governing board that is completely aware of the hard work and challenges that the system is facing. We need, you know, appropriate staffing. We need enough people with the enough with the appropriate expertise to be able to operate the system effectively. We need good communication linkages between the manager and the board and the system and you know their state regulator, their county regulator, county emergency management, law enforcement, emergency response, all those communication linkages need to be made and put together. And under financial capacity, the third pillar that I'm talking about, revenue sufficiency and appropriate financial controls. Absolutely critical. And well, I like to tell my uh the my the people I talk with and the students I teach is um if you focus only on technical capacity, you may have a system that is absolutely state of the art. But if you're ignoring managerial capacity or financial capacity, if you don't have good management in an engaged board, or if your rates are not where they need to be and you don't have revenue to fix anything, your system will not stay state of the art very long. Yeah, yeah. So I I encourage boards to pay attention to technical, managerial, and financial capacity because you have to to be sustainable. You can't ignore one and only pay attention to the other two. Or you it's like the legs of a three-legged table. It's not stable unless you devote a lot of attention to each leg.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, that was what I was gonna say. You said it. Uh, it's it's a three-legged stool, and uh you need to approach each element to be successful. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

And sustainability, you use that term, and and uh unfortunately for our environmental sustainability focused uh colleagues, that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about sustainability from a systemic perspective. You know, can this utility function effectively, sustainably going forward on all on all three legs, you know, managerially, financially, and technically? Fair enough?

Sustainability As Resilience, Not Politics

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Yeah, absolutely. Um I'm discussing sustainability, you know, it it comes with varying definitions, and sometimes it's even a politically loaded term. You know, I'm we're I'm in the middle of Oklahoma here where we we we're kind of right-wing leaning in our politics. But what I tell systems, by sustainable, I mean resilient, able to function and withstand anything thrown at you. You know, I I I have my class stand up. We look out the window, you see these businesses out here, they've been there for 50 years. They're there because their business model is sustainable. Yeah, and that is what we're aiming for for your water and wastewater system.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

So, this long-range sustainability plan, the program, uh, where did this come from? And what is the intent and maybe just some of the elements of it? I think you covered it a little bit already, but tell us a little bit about the background, where it came from, why, and and you know, where it's headed.

Origins Of The LRSP In Oklahoma

SPEAKER_02 8:45

Okay. Um well, the long-range sustainability program is is a product of an organization in Oklahoma called the Oklahoma Strategic Alliance. What that is, it's it's a consortium of all of the providers of technical assistance or regulators that are in the water and wastewater industry, where we come together and we combine knowledge, skills, and resources to help our water and wastewater systems. Um, it was ratified by uh Governor Stitt in 2019. And but before this, what was going on is we were all helping water and wastewater systems, but we were working, we were in our own little silos. Sometimes we were working at cross purposes accidentally or needlessly duplicating each other's efforts. So we joined together. And then we developed a long-range sustainability plan um to address a particular need. You know, the majority of water systems in Oklahoma are small, and we were seeing that there were a steady 15% of the systems in Oklahoma that um consistently had MCL or treatment technique violations, which enforcement wasn't doing the job of getting it fixed. You know, we were sending enforcement actions, noises violations, consent orders, administrative compliance orders. It wasn't didn't seem to be making any progress. So we decided to look at it from a different angle. From we decided to look at it from the capacity development angle, and we began to assess these systems. We did something called the capacity development baseline assessment. We and what we noticed was that the deficiencies that we were seeing in our small systems, um the majority of them were related to operations and maintenance. But the roots of those operational and maintenance issues went back to um managerial or or financial issues. Okay. There wasn't, you know, there wasn't effective management or leadership in the system. The there was no revenue to fix issues. So we so that's what we were seeing. That you know, that the the systems were they had violations, they're constantly in violation, we couldn't get them out of it. What's going on? Linking back to there's issues in management, leadership, there's issues in finance. So we developed the long-range sustainability plan to address this. We wanted to make a comprehensive program that focused on every aspect of system sustainability, every aspect of technical capacity, of managerial capacity, of financial capacity. And the plan is geared to optimize and make the system, get the system to be as efficient and effective as it possibly can be in all these areas, with with the intent of reduce statewide reducing violations, or if a system ends up with a treatment technique or MCL violation, they have the ability and the skills and the resources to quickly resolve that violation and get back in compliance. That that's that's the idea, that's the plan.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Yeah. Fundamentally, we're water utilities in particular are agents of public health. And if you're not treating the water and sending it to your customer where it's safe and clean and all that, you're not doing your job. Fair enough.

Diagnosing Root Causes Of Violations

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Absolutely. Safe drinking water is one of the greatest public health advances of all time. And I think many people have forgotten that. You know, I I regularly I'm part of a genealogy group, and I see newspaper clippings from the 1920s and 30s and 40s from from where I grew up at. And some of it's death notices, and you I'm reading through it, and I'm seeing people dying from typhoid or from cholera, right? Which thank goodness they're gone. But I mean, but the reason those those waterborne diseases are gone and don't impact us hardly any at all anymore, is because of our safe drinking water.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

So I mean I and I teach boards and operators and managers that you cannot forget that you are you are essential to protecting public health.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah. And I'd be correct in saying that the long-range sustainability plan also covers the wastewater side of the utility world. Is that fair? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Because we don't want to simply treat the drinking water and say we're done. We also need to treat the used water and make sure we return it to the environment in an appropriate fashion. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Absolutely. And then the you know, efficiency and optimizations can be applied to both systems. You know, our wastewater systems, when they're operating correctly and operating at high highest efficiency and effectiveness, you know, they are protecting public health and they are protecting the environment.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Well, you you indicated, if I heard you correctly, that that at least one of the root causes of all of these challenges you identified was a lack of of real meaningful managerial capacity and to some extent financial capacity. But when it comes to deciding that a utility wants to become part of the long-range sustainability program and develop a plan with you, um, how do they come to do that? Uh it's a voluntary process, I understand, or is there an encouragement that's sometimes offered by uh maybe a government agency? And then you know, just generally, how does it work?

How Systems Join And Commit

SPEAKER_02 14:37

Yeah, it's it's voluntary, and it is it, I'll be quite frank with you, it's a lot of hard work. And um, you know, Oklahoma Rural Water Association, we manage and implement the the LRSP plan, but we do not do it for the systems. We guide the systems, we you know assist the systems, but they must do it, and if that's by design. We want them, we want them to have ownership in this system. And um, you know, completing an LRSP um gives a system favor with the Drinking Water State Revolving Fund and with other sources of funding in the state. And what I like to tell systems when I'm talking about the LRSP is we do not accept applications into this program. You cannot apply, you can only submit a commitment. You can commit to completing the LRSP plan. So I I've warned them in the beginning like this is transformational. This will take a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, a lot of hard work. Generally, it takes a year and a half to two years to complete. But if they commit to it and we have them sign a letter of intent, that they intend to complete the LRSP plan once it's completed and then being implemented, the changes are are night and day for just for everything about the system, for the rates, for for the for the attitude, for how they people keep how the operators and board members carry themselves. I mean, everything, how people view the system. And my most favorite part of the whole program when you complete an LRSP plan, we get to present a uh a proclamation from Governor Stitt to the system at a at a at an award ceremony. I absolutely love doing that.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

That's good. Everybody loves recognition. Hopefully it's positive, right? Yeah, we we won't name names, but is there is it like college where you have so many years to complete it? I mean, if you're making a commitment and you've got it's gonna take a year and a half, two years, do you ever see folks that are taking three years, four years, but they're still committed? Sometimes. I mean, you know, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

A lot of the issues with small systems is that it's it's it's a small team, there's only a few people working at the system.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So you know, it it may it may take a little longer than expected to complete that asset management plan.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

It may take longer to complete the mapping, but you know, yeah, people people may retire, they may get a new job, new people come on, staff, yeah. Those things happen. Yeah. Um here's a question. I uh I reviewed a little bit about these plans. I I looked at a plan that you were kind enough to send me. Um and you were uh uh you were able to present at ACE 25, and your presentation was was wonderful. And I noticed that um there were a couple of just the elements of the long-range sustainability plan pretty comprehensive, pretty intense. And I I would agree uh with you that this does take quite a bit of time to compile and prepare and submit. Um, I would think a year and a half, two years might be even on the on the short end. But I noticed and I wanted to ask you, does the does the long-range sustainability plan incorporate any leadership development or even training for the governance structure of a utility and things like that, strategic planning? Tell me whether those are elements that are part of this uh long-range sustainability program.

Leadership Training And Governance Buy‑In

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Absolutely. I mean, we believe that a critical part of LRSP, and for it to be successful, it takes buy-in and support from management and leadership. We include managerial capacity items like it, developing and implementing an asset management plan, policy and procedure updates, you know, an employee incentive plan. Those things require, you know, um management and leadership, buy-in and support. But to be quite honest, LRSP plan will not be successful if it's not supported, supported by management and leadership. Yeah, the the the the fixed the fixes don't stick if we don't have managerial buy-in and training.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

So it's you know, we encourage the a view that between the board and the manager and the operators and the office staff that you're a team. We're in this together. We have to pull together. You know, we we talk about uh something as simple as chain of command, who answers to who. I mean, and a lot of times something simple like that gets forgotten or thrown by the wayside. And then smaller organizations, if it's if it's not clear, that can cause real problems. Yeah. And being effective at getting your job done, at um effectively managing your system. So we we encourage the entire system to view holistically, you're a team, you've got to pull together, everyone has a part, everyone needs to have buy-in on this for it to be effective.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

Well, I noticed in your presentation that you conducted at Ace 25 that out of the more than 1200 systems in Oklahoma, you had a fledgling group of systems that had successfully completed the long-range sustainability plan. Um I wanted to get a sense of of the numbers from you. Um it looked like uh you know maybe you know one or two percent had participated and I completed. Where are we with the numbers of the participants? And do you see this uh growing? Uh, what are your thoughts on the level of participation?

Participation Numbers And Overcoming Complacency

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Yeah, um uh so we have 1,267 uh water systems that meet the definition of a public water supply in Oklahoma. And out of that number, 19 have completed an LRSP. Yeah, and I, you know, I'm I want more to complete it. Part of it is it takes, you know, it takes commitment. It it takes effort and hard work and belief that in the importance of system sustainability. The number one thing I well, the root causes that we're pushing back against in small water and wastewater systems is just a sense of complacency. And I would say it's I've been around the country and I've and I've seen it elsewhere, and I I would think some of my colleagues in another organization would agree with me that that's the number one issue is complacency and a drive and a desire to improve once, and if you can overcome that, you can be successful. So we've we've got um 73 other systems that are at some stage in the process of completing an LRSP. That's great. And I've also had 30 systems that I've inquired but haven't quite pulled the trigger on the letter of intent. But yeah, I mean, if if we want to have meaningful change, people must buy in and engage and commit. You know, I if I wanted to create a program that had great numbers, ORWA would roll in and we'd develop all these plans for them and make this wonderful plan and sit at on their desk and here you go, congratulations. Uh, we're moving on to the next system. And there would be no meaningful change. There would be a nice, pretty plan sitting on a book.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And I would you know, could be here with you saying, Yeah, I've got uh 90% of our systems have completed this. Yeah. But I mean, I want I want I want meaningful change, I want fewer MCL and treatment technique techniques. violations. I want financially healthy systems. I want safe and plentiful water provided 24-7 and 365 no matter what. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

You want the plan to be a mechanism, an active mechanism for performance and excellence, not a a trophy in the case that gathers dust.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Fair enough? Absolutely. I'll go one step farther. I want it to be a way of life.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Okay. Well that's a good way to look at it. It seems that there's progress though. That's kind of what I read from you. And you can't force these people to come in and commit, but that they're inquiring and they're starting. And I think as we think about the future of where this may go, do you think there's a sense of accountability and anxiety about accountability that may be underneath this. Is that is that something you see? I yeah I would think so.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

I mean we are in the day and age of social media. You know people are can communicate much more quickly and it and more farther reaching than ever before. And you know when there are issues with a water or wastewater system, you know, people can get very upset very quickly. And I think a lot of it has to do with social media, which is great. But I mean that creates a sense of accountability for our water and wastewater systems. But being accountable and then also being aware of the issues and actively taking steps to correct it and prevent them from happening in the future that's one step farther. And that's one of the things that we're you know that the LRSP program is aiming at not only accountability but active engagement, looking ahead, anticipating problems, avoiding those problems or mitigate mitigating them with if if and when they happen so that the issue the problems are minimized and that we continue to provide safe water and good treatment of wastewater.

Accountability, Transparency, And Public Trust

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Do you when people sign up and make the commitment to work with you on these plans are they required or just encouraged to place these plans once completed on their website? They are encouraged to but it's not a requirement. Okay. So if I'm a customer and I I'm able to see what the general manager has put on the website, you know, a copy of the plan that provides some accountability and I can perhaps inquire about you know why are the water losses so high? You said in your plan you were going to redress this or your capital plan. Where's that project? You know, you said you would build a new pipeline all those things um now become uh open for scrutiny and there's a level of accountability maybe you know some accomplishment perhaps but then even on the other side maybe some embarrassment right and so yeah a little bit of positive and negative motivation.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

You have to work through that. Yeah but I mean if if you're completing an LRSP plan, you know I'm I'm encouraging and training and discussing this with managers and boards yeah you are committing you are committed to this you know so accept the accountability to yes hold us accountable. We are committing to do this and we're going to do it as best as we can as quickly as we can if we encounter problems we're going to meet them and adapt and overcome but we're going to get there. We're going to reduce that water loss to 12%. We're going to you know make sure that the water pressure is 50 psi 247 365 you don't have low pressure outages. Yeah we're going to we're going to commit that we're going to be fully funded we're going to pay our staff a good wage so that the the you know the knowledge skills and resources stay here and they don't move on to other places to make more money.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Well it appears to me that Oklahoma Rural Water is a leader in this world of you know long range sustainability plans and and I don't know I'll ask you are are are there any other rural water associations that have adopted this program and have started to implement these these uh these long range sustainability plans I I don't know of any to be quite honest with you although um I have presented this at um National Rural Water Association's in service we've gotten a lot of questions and interest. That's good but um I I do know that that some of our friendly competitors uh communities unlimited Southwest environmental finance center they do a lot of work supporting um supporting things like this yeah but supporting system sustainability but I don't think they have a plan quite like this but like my view is I I'm not competing with them. Right. I want to work together. I want to work together with everybody because the goal is to help protect our systems. That's what we want.

Signals Of Change And Measured Results

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Well when we think about the future and we think about how your leadership, Oklahoma's leadership in this long-range sustainability program and the development of these plans, you know what are some of the signals of change that you see driving the interest in completing these plans and participating in the program is it, you know, bond ratings or maybe SRF eligibility or any other benefits or challenges? What what do you think is driving this? A lot of it is a drive to be the best.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

We want to be the best and I'm willing to put the hard work into it to show that my system is the best it it feeds into a sense of community pride. It it feeds into um it's it's part of just community promotion and growth um and it definitely it is favorable for uh the point scoring schematics that you see with the drinking water state revolving fund the clean water state revolving fund um with the other grants and loan programs usd rural development it it helps out and if I can I mean just some of the the of the successes that we're seeing is um systems that complete LRSP plans they're they're their cap dev scores how DEQ views their MFT or TMF uh situation improved by 25.8 percent and that that's a huge jump wow um systems that complete an LRSP their water loss an average of 40% reduction in water loss wow uh rate uh rate analysis an improvement of over 25% in operating ratio and the systems that have participated have increased their revenue by six hundred and thirty nine thousand dollars a year that's a lot of money I I love those metrics because that brings it home I mean if you if you if you're willing to commit these are some of the things you can achieve well that's pretty and that's pretty impressive those numbers um and when you're talking about small to medium sized utilities that money goes a long way absolutely that will buy new equipment that will hire new staff yeah that can do a lot of amazing things well let me let me turn to the future of this of this program it's intriguing and I I want to ask you where do you see this whole program going over the next 10 to 20 years?

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Will it be uh a transformational program where we're talking in the future and suddenly it's not just Oklahoma but it's it's you know 40 states 40 rural water associations that are developing and launching these programs and there's you know thousands of these rural water members uh that are participating and seeing success what are what are the different futures that you see from today looking forward well you know I've talked a lot about commitment in this presentation and um I I I you know I share in that I am committed I believe in the success I mean I I I believe in the successes that can be achieved with this program I believe it is an importance and um I I take every opportunity I can to promote it.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

You know the the problems that we face in Oklahoma are not unique to Oklahoma concerning water and wastewater systems. Many other states suffer from the same issues and problems with their systems that we do. And I think the LRSP model is transferable you know we're dealing with the same problems as other states this can be a repeatable solution a repeatable solution yeah I I I really do. And the LRSP program you know the systems don't they don't purchase this from us. This is provided at no cost. Our assistants our step by step work with them our help it's at no cost doesn't cost the systems anything. Just blood sweat and tears is what it costs them. And I I I would love to go out to other states and talk about this program and share the model because I I believe in it.

Workforce Pressure And Pay Realities

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah. Do you think one of the drivers that is is impacting the signals of change that you see is is for better or for worse the aging workforce that we have. You know everybody talks about the silver tsunami and we have a lot of um leaders in the world of water the general managers the CEOs are going to retire and there's a younger crowd coming in who may have a different sense of accountability may have a a different sense of how to lead manage and operate water and wastewater systems and and you may see a dramatic increase over the next 10 to 20 years in people committing to systems committing to this program.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Is that a is that a possible uh outcome we see moving forward I I believe so and I have seen that and I have seen you know the next generation of water and wastewater operators and system managers coming in and you know seeing the LRSP program and buying into it and carrying it to completion. One that we just helped out was the town of Ceiling um you know their their city manager uh believes in the LRSP program. They just completed it. I tell you you said a crowd coming in I hope there's a crowd coming in behind all of us gray hairs that are out here right now. I tell you it's hard to it's hard to find good help in the best of situations our rural systems are really struggling. It is hard to find people who want to make a living in the water and wastewater industry for a whole host of reasons. You know it's our systems need to be committed to paying a good wage to our to our incoming water and wastewater operators. Yeah you know some some of our systems some of the rural water districts they still they don't want to pay what it's going to take to get a trained and skilled person who's committed to operate the system and that's got to change otherwise you know our people are going to go to the oil field people are going to you know run the family farm there's other things to do that can make more money.

Too Small To Survive Risk

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Well taking that workforce development challenge and let's flip it and view that as a as a possible collapse scenario where maybe there aren't enough people ready to fill the shoes of the current leadership and workforce that's out there that's getting ready to retire. And we're back to a situation in 10 to 20 years where people just don't have the time. We don't have the right quality and quantity of people to focus on uh kind of these planning activities, these forward-looking activities there's we're simply back to survival and the new leaders you know they may be younger but they're they're too they're gonna get older and they may not have the margin to sit down with you and Oklahoma Roll Water and commit to these uh commit to these plans is that a you know that's a that's a that's a maybe a dystopian view but is that a is that a possibility yeah I mean that is a real concern you know a lot of it's like you know small systems get a bad rap but it they're not bad actors the you know most small utilities they're they're run by dedicated people but they're working with aging infrastructure they're working with thin operating reserves they have a skeleton crew or a very limited staff you know and when you're like that you know several a couple years back we had a big phrase in the news in the media of the banks that were too big to fail so they got a government bailout.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

Well I argue that the converse is true you can have water systems that are too small to survive because it it's because of those reasons I mentioned um we have to do something about that. I mean there's there's a limit to how thin and how small you can cut things before all you're doing is is firefighting every day. You know you're moving from crisis to crisis and you don't have time to think about um sustainability or or or resilience and you have to or something is going to happen that's going to be one crisis too many and the system is going to go down for a long time. Yeah. Which we've seen happen. I mean we've seen outages that went into the weeks yeah we've there's systems I didn't I don't want to sit here and beat up my state but I there are systems in the state that have been on boil order for months because of of terrible infrastructure problems and there's no revenue to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

You know it's interesting dare I dare I make this suggestion but do you think there are um unless maybe I'll ask you to put your regulator hat back on but are there mechanisms to encourage and I'll put that in air quotes to encourage rural water systems or any other system to participate in this program through uh number one just an idea maybe there's some SRF money that can be allocated to hire people consultants to help these utilities get into the program and complete their plan. Number two, what if the utility that got a notice of violation entered into a settlement agreement where instead of paying a fine they agreed to participate and complete participate in your program and complete the long range sustainability plan as part of an agreed order or consent decree.

Policy Levers: SRF And Consent Orders

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Yeah I just I'm gl I'm glad you mentioned that um we have had that a couple times um as a condition of a consent order for a small system that they needed to complete an LRSP plan. Wow and uh they're still in process they're still working on it but it it's happening and um you know the SRFs they do provide set aside funding and ORWA here Oklahoma Rural Water we we are recipient of some of that funding. You know we we manage the program we also actively encourage and support systems to enter it into and and to work their way through and complete it.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Yeah okay so I'm not I'm not too far off the beaten path there those ideas okay all right well let me let me ask you this question as we as we uh conclude here in your perfect world if you're the master of the universe here what changes to the long range sustainability plan do you see as possible or probable in the next 10 years or more?

If Brandon Ruled The Universe

SPEAKER_02 36:53

If I was master of the universe I would make this a requirement uh frankly a legal obligation a legal obligation I think that system should be legally required to complete it now will that happen no yeah should it happen yeah is it a good idea well you know you got your people who are gonna say it's way government overreach but you know like I said this is provided at no cost the we're not charging them any money for these improvements it's just yeah effort and time and energy on their part and they it does nothing but benefit them reductions in water loss new more revenue coming in you know um the the cap dev score improvement by 25% plus you know it's I I can't really argue with those numbers. I don't want to argue on a show like look this is what we could accomplish so I I I think that being in the water and wastewater industry I believe it's a calling I don't believe it's a job. I think it's a calling and that those are the kind of people I want to work with and I think those are the kind of people that need to enter to enter into this career. Yeah. And I think if you have that as a calling the LRSP program is just you know it it's the it it's it it embodies the air you breathe frankly yeah perhaps the long range sustainability plan is a manifestation of one's commitment to protecting public health through the provision of safe clean drinking water and wastewater service.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Fair enough?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Dr. Klein I could not have said it better myself. That is that is succinct. That is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Well I want to thank you Brandon for being a guest today on the Water Foresight Podcast uh frankly we could talk for another hour or two on this program many other questions but I will follow you and this program to see where it goes and I am even though I'm the host I'm cautiously optimistic about the success of this program and its ability to take off across America and uh I look forward to uh further conversations with you in the future about where this stands so I thank you again for being a guest today on the Waterforesight podcast and tell our guests Brandon where can they get a hold of you to talk to you and learn more about the long range sustainability plan program.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Absolutely thank you for the invitation Dr. Klein um I have enjoyed this conversation I yeah I could I could sit here we talk for all day long about this stuff. I love it. I'm very I I believe in it very passionate about it. Your listeners I I my email address I'll be happy to give that out is is bbowman at or a dotor that's b b o w m a n at orwa um you that's my email address our website's www dot orwa.org um and uh I if other states other places are interested I I'm an open book I'll be happy to share anything because I I believe in this wonderful and I guess you will be at the National Rural Water Association annual conference.

Closing, Contacts, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I think it's WaterCon 26 is that true I've got plans to be there. Hopefully I can all right all right and that's in Phoenix I think this year. Yes sir so all right we encourage everyone to go meet Brandon at WaterCon and pick his brain on this long range sustainability program. Again we thank you the listener for joining us today on the Water Foresight Podcast and we look forward to seeing you again on the next episode. Have a wonderful day thank you for listening to the Water Foresight Podcast powered by the Aqualaris group for more information please visit us at aqualars.com or follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter