Embark on an enlightening exploration of a globally pressing issue with the insight of Samista Jugwanth, joining us from the vibrant heart of South Africa. Prepare to unravel the intricate tapestry of WASH—Water, Sanitation, and Hygiene—challenges that persist not only in the developing world but also on the doorsteps of developed nations. Samista sheds light on the stark reality that billions are deprived of basic necessities like clean water and safe sanitation, with severe repercussions for public health, especially among children. In our discussion, we tackle the persistent myths and reveal the sobering truth that no country is safe from the consequences of neglecting WASH, as environmental, infrastructural, and natural calamities lay bare the vulnerabilities of even the most affluent societies.
Our conversation takes a turn towards the horizon of possibilities for WASH, intertwining the narratives of corporate social responsibility and the United Nations' Sustainable Development Goals. Witness how giants like Coca-Cola are channeling their efforts to meld their business strategies with the pursuit of public good, exemplified by initiatives aimed at revitalizing communities through water stewardship. However, we don't shy away from the grim forewarnings of a potential collapse within the WASH sector, considering the myriad of factors from climate change to shifts in global priorities. Together with Samista, we emphasize the importance of a multi-layered approach, combining foresight and a unity of disciplines to create resilient and trust-building WASH projects for a sustainable and healthy future. Join us for a narrative that goes beyond mere statistics, offering real-world implications and actionable insights for the path ahead.
#water #WaterForesight #strategicforesight #foresight #futures @Aqualaurus
Embark on an enlightening exploration of a globally pressing issue with the insight of Samista Jugwanth, joining us from the vibrant heart of South Africa. Prepare to unravel the intricate tapestry of WASH—Water, Sanitation, and Hygiene—challenges that persist not only in the developing world but also on the doorsteps of developed nations. Samista sheds light on the stark reality that billions are deprived of basic necessities like clean water and safe sanitation, with severe repercussions for public health, especially among children. In our discussion, we tackle the persistent myths and reveal the sobering truth that no country is safe from the consequences of neglecting WASH, as environmental, infrastructural, and natural calamities lay bare the vulnerabilities of even the most affluent societies.
Our conversation takes a turn towards the horizon of possibilities for WASH, intertwining the narratives of corporate social responsibility and the United Nations' Sustainable Development Goals. Witness how giants like Coca-Cola are channeling their efforts to meld their business strategies with the pursuit of public good, exemplified by initiatives aimed at revitalizing communities through water stewardship. However, we don't shy away from the grim forewarnings of a potential collapse within the WASH sector, considering the myriad of factors from climate change to shifts in global priorities. Together with Samista, we emphasize the importance of a multi-layered approach, combining foresight and a unity of disciplines to create resilient and trust-building WASH projects for a sustainable and healthy future. Join us for a narrative that goes beyond mere statistics, offering real-world implications and actionable insights for the path ahead.
#water #WaterForesight #strategicforesight #foresight #futures @Aqualaurus
Aqualars. This is the Water Force Site Podcast powered by the Aqualars group, where we anticipate, frame and shape the future of water through strategic foresight. Today's guest is Samista Jagwant, who's the technical director at Sutari. Samista, welcome to the Water Force Site Podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks, matthew, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1:Well, our guests may not know, but you are all the way in South Africa joining us and it's a privilege to have you. I hope it's not too late for you and you've had a cup of coffee and ready to talk about the future of water.
Speaker 2:I do have that cup of coffee.
Speaker 1:Well, great, we're going to talk about something that's very interesting to me and I think, also to you, but to our listeners, something they may not be thinking about when it comes to the future of water, and that is the term wash. Now, many people who aren't in the world of water think that when you say wash, you're going to go wash your car or take a bath. But I think that a lot of people in the world of water know probably what wash means. But help us real quick, understand the term wash. What does it stand for and what does it mean?
Speaker 2:So wash is not a term that is often spoken about in developed countries, because it essentially stands for water, sanitation and hygiene.
Speaker 2:These are things that I think in more privileged situations we tend to take for granted. They're grouped together because when they're not present, the impact that they have is pretty similar in terms that you have the rampant spread of disease and ill health, and I think most of us in our space has grown up with this just opening a tap, flushing a toilet, but in the world there are 2.2 billion people who can't turn on that tap in their homes kind of safe, clean water. There's more than 3.6 billion that's about half of our global population that do not have access to safe toilets in their home. 500 people practice open defecation. It feels a railway line and I think one of the most chilling statistics that's around is about 500,000 children under the age of five pass away every year because of disease related to a lack of sanitation and clean water. So it's a massive problem. It's just that maybe it's not out in the floor as much as it should be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think you hit on why. I think this conversation is very interesting to us in the world of water in that we often hear the term wash and we think, well, that's a problem over there, like somewhere else the second world, third world, as we call it oh, but not here in the West or not here in America. And I've been thinking about that because in America we've had some stories of people across America that really are experiencing the very things that you're describing and it's been a bit of a head scratcher for a lot of people because they thought, well, gee, I thought we had everything figured out. Here in America or in the West, everyone has a drinking water source, a well or some sort of municipal water supply.
Speaker 2:And we all have bathroom.
Speaker 1:But we have stories of that and I'm thinking what's the future of wash? Is it just simply still, as you kind of described, a problem somewhere else? Or maybe in the future we're going to see wash come over back to the West, if you will, to America, and we have our own wash challenges. So we'll unpack this and talk about it. But that's kind of why I thought we need to talk to Sumista about this and get a little bit of education and think about the future of this. But I don't know what you see where you live in South Africa. Do you see things that concern you about wash in America or the West?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so South Africa is a bit of a funny place where we have very highly developed areas and then areas that aren't as developed. But you're totally right, I think wash in the developing countries is known because it's the worst case scenario. It's a very obvious, very publicized situations, but essentially, if you do not have access to clean water, that is a lack of wash. And there are many rural areas in the developed world that do not have access to that, or they have water to their homes, but the water is contaminated.
Speaker 2:And if you think, as if we progress with certain environmental challenges that we're seeing all over, our water sources are becoming more and more contaminated, our groundwater is becoming more and more contaminated, which means that this problem is something that is going to increase in the developed world, maybe not in the same way that it is in the developing world, where that infrastructure isn't there, but it will happen. If I think about the neighborhood that I live in, it's a very developed area, but because it's a very old area, we don't have maybe the best sanitation system. So, once again, there's infrastructure there, but there's still a lack of safe sanitation. And then we think about all the war and conflict and civil unrest that we're seeing across the globe, and that's not a question of countries that are developed and countries that aren't. Every time that happens, every time they're natural disasters. One of the first of infrastructure that is affected is water and sanitation.
Speaker 2:If you think about every hurricane or tornado that's occurred, the one thing that people don't have is clean water and safe sanitation, which increases the amount of disease that happens and that follows natural disasters, and so it definitely is something that's relevant, no matter where in the world we're sitting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you always see the pictures of the trucks that deliver bottled water, or the portapotties, if you will, whenever there's a hurricane that rolls through, and you see pictures of the water and wastewater plants are just inundated with flooding and water and they go down for a bit. And so what do people do, right? So I had a question and I think we've already talked about it, but I think I was going to ask you where does wash exist? And I think you and I have talked about it being in the minds of developed nations. It's a problem over there. It's somewhere else. We've reached stories about.
Speaker 1:Well, let's just give some money to water for people, or let's give some money to some missionaries to help them with the communities that they're serving, but it's always over there, and I think, as I mentioned, I'm scratching my head wondering if it's not somewhere over there. But it's also a first world problem, and you indicated where you live, in South Africa. You see those things too. It's a bit of a mixed bag, and so in my mind, could possibly a situation arise in the future where we see the Red Cross or maybe even the United Nations coming to America and helping communities that are underserved, that have wash issues, not over there, but over here or in the first world, and so I think maybe the answer to the question is wash may exist everywhere, and in the future we may see this notion challenge our stereotypes of what is wash and where does it exist. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:Yes, the thing is. I mean, even if you look at some urban areas where the services aren't enough for the high density population that has occurred because of urbanization, they also have wash problems because they don't have enough water or their water sources aren't clean. And it's not just I feel it's not just a problem for now. It's a problem that's going to persist and, as you mentioned, it's just going to look differently. I know, when I've seen a lot of the work that's been coming out. Sometimes, when you follow the bids and the proposals that come out in the wash space, you definitely see now a little bit more of an emphasis not only on the traditional wash in areas that don't have infrastructure, but there's a lot more emphasis on this life emergency wash, like how do you actually help a population that doesn't have access to it? It's not because they didn't have, but as of now they do not have access to that infrastructure. So it definitely is becoming something that we pay attention to, even though it's not as extreme as some of the other things.
Speaker 2:We have all these challenges that are very extreme, and this doesn't seem like an extreme one, but when we actually think about the value of having clean water and the value of not having your waste stay in your surroundings, or polluting your environment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we often say water is free, there it is, it's in the groundwater, it is the groundwater, it's over there in the stream or the reservoir. Now, sometimes people don't understand. It takes time and money to build the infrastructure to make sure you can move it and clean it. But there's a bit of a cognitive issue there, and certainly maybe not with the wastewater. People say that's bad, get it away for me right? Yes, I think that when we think about the future of wash, one question that I have is on the nature of wash, or how we define wash, and we often think of it as a geographic issue. It is focused on people over there, people who are less advantaged, if you will, and it's focused on water quality predominantly and chiefly on biological issues such as viruses and bacteria. Can we get it free of bacteria and viruses?
Speaker 1:But when we think about what's happening here in America, with the resurgence of lead and lead service lines and also the focus on unregulated contaminants, will the notion of wash for people over there or even maybe here in America, will the notion of wash change to something more than just the basic? Let's address the biological contaminants, but it may even be. Let's address some of the heavy metals. Let's address these what we call unregulated contaminants. Will the nature of wash change in the future in your opinion?
Speaker 2:It's a very good point that you make. I haven't read a lot of literature on this particular space. I think it's a good observation.
Speaker 2:What we do know is that, with climate change challenges ahead, our water security is at risk, and what's coming from that really is that wastewater is no longer waste, it's a resource, and so, looking at the water and sanitation part now, in some cases actually becomes a cycle.
Speaker 2:What we think is sanitation is actually our future water source, and so all of those contaminants that you're talking about, they become so critical because in a system like that, those concentrations have not treated, magnify. If we think about even we take it a step further, and especially in areas that do have good infrastructure and good healthcare systems, there are things like antibiotics, blood control, hormones all the emerging contaminants that we have not really bolted into our water quality monitoring systems yet because they're not that visible or the output that they have it's not that visible, but as our water supplies become at risk compared to our growing population and our rising climate change challenges, these things now become extremely critical, and so the technology that we apply in the sanitation side needs to keep in mind that that actually might be our water source.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think you raise a good point about emerging contaminants and the image that people in the West have of wash. When they put a picture to that term, they think of building a well in the middle of Africa and they don't think that perhaps the water at issue is already contaminated. It may be from a river that has factories upstream, or agricultural contamination, and then when you look at it as a system of treating the wastewater to generate drinking water, now we have to figure out how do we make sure that that wastewater slash drinking water to be is truly clean and safe for consumption. And I think perhaps what you're putting out there is a future scenario for how wash will be addressed in the future by regulators, by communities and other decision makers. That's kind of my take.
Speaker 2:It's always been such a strong focus on the actual technology operations of these things. Right, but what we tend not to look at is education, so having people understand why these things are important. They take responsibility of contaminants discharge. It's also the regulatory side where, if we look at things like the scenario that you painted, we need to have strict regulations on how we monitor discharges, because right now, I think in many societies we have bylaws that tell us what we can or can't do, but it's almost impossible to monitor thousands of industries, and so I think the whole wash scenario is the whole wash scenario. It takes on not just the technological side, but also the people wanting to do the right thing and good behavior, strongly linked to education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point, and also being able to monitor and regulate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. Again, back to the stereotype that people in the West might have about Osh, about putting a well in and being able to get a bucket of water. Certainly, as you put it, the operational side we can do that, we can provide water to people, but is there a legal framework around it? Are there laws or regulations that protect that water source or require commercial, industrial and even residential concerns to properly dispose of their wastewater so that it doesn't contaminate sources of drinking water? And I think that's a good point. It's not just the technical side of wash that may change in the future, it's also the legal side of wash that may change in the future or may need to change, and we can get into that. That's a good observation.
Speaker 1:I have a question about the rise of corporate social responsibility, about environmental, social and governance or ESG, and then these things called SDGs, sustainable development goals A lot of alphabet soup there we see here in America and people have our time. Okay, what does it all mean and how does it relate and what does it have to do with wash? So your thoughts on ESG that a lot of companies are pursuing and even these sustainable development goals what does that have to do with wash?
Speaker 2:Okay. So sustainable development goals they're goals that we want to have equitable and sustainable loving across the globe. And in terms of wash, it quite squarely fits into SDG6, which is the access to clean water and sanitation, and the hope is that by 2030, people across the globe has universal and equitable access to safe and affordable water, and when we say safe and affordable water, we mean that people can actually have clean water, drinking water, in their homes. The same 6.2 in this in the skull is about access to adequate and equitable sanitation and hygiene, and in that regard, we're talking about sanitation that can safely remove waste so it doesn't cause an environmental or a hygiene problem, and hygiene, we're talking about people having the ability to.
Speaker 2:Just in one of the goals with SDG, it's just about washing your hands with soap, and that sounds incredibly like doesn't everyone wash their hands with soap? But in low income countries, there's a certain same stat that only one in four people have access to hand washing facilities, and so we think everyone does that. But if you don't have water, if you don't have soap, how do you even start? And then with the SDG, so go ahead.
Speaker 1:Matthew, I think you are spot on on SDG, sdg 6. And I think those are what I would call voluntary goals, precepts that were developed by the United Nations, if I'm correct. And maybe what you are seeing is that, as companies become more committed to their character, if you will, in the world, they're saying what can we do to demonstrate our commitment to humanity? And so we're looking at environmental, social and governance ESG to put on a better face, to demonstrate our commitment to the communities in which we operate. And they look over here and they say, well, hey, these sustainable development goals, they're pretty good. We don't have to build it from scratch. Let's bring in SDG 6 as part of our list of things we're going to commit to on ESG and we're going to promote SDG 6 and perhaps maybe, after talking to you right, they're going to say, hey, we talked to some of our consultants and maybe we need to invest in wash, we need to support wash activities around the world. Is that a framework that makes sense to you? Is that kind of how they're all related?
Speaker 2:So I've seen it happen. So Coca-Cola, for example they have an amazing program called RAIN, their replenish Africa initiative, where they have a number of wash projects under the banner since I think it might have been like 2009 or 2010, but they've been doing it for a while. But I also have a lot of other companies. When they're doing the water management strategy, Part of it is also their water stewardship, so they're responsibility to the communities. And I mean there's a wonderful example in South Africa where a company, instead of just focusing on doing things for a tick box exercise you know, I'm going to put rainwater harvesting, I'm going to put gray water, I'm going to do everything just because it looks good.
Speaker 2:A lot of these companies aren't doing that. They're saying I can also make a difference in terms of water, in terms of me being a steward of providing services to the communities that buy our products and that work in our companies. And so in the East, in Cape in South Africa, one of the companies I've worked with they did an amazing thing where they actually sponsored a program for plumbers to go into these sort of lower socioeconomic housing to fix the systems on the toilets, and by doing that the water was basically flowing through all the time and being wasted, and by fixing these toilets, they suddenly saved a whole lot of water for the community to be able to use and they dropped the cost. So there's amazing things that companies can do and they add a tremendous amount of value.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, that sort of tees up really some important questions for us to go through. Now you are a foresight professional like me, and we talk about scenarios, we talk about the future, and the things that we've just talked about are very interesting and they beg the question about the future of wash and the different scenarios that we may see when it comes to wash. And we can talk about it not only through scenarios related to transformation or business as usual or even collapse of wash, but we can talk about it, as you alluded to earlier, about different lenses, the operational or technical side of wash, or even the legal or regulatory side of wash. Or you just talked a few minutes about how I think Coca-Cola is maybe taking a let's call it an ethical or moral approach to wash and what are.
Speaker 1:We can walk through this, but let's talk about some future scenarios of wash, the possible, probable, plausible scenarios that may happen in wash, and maybe are there winners and losers, are there things that if in 10 to 20 years this happens in wash, we might want to think about today, how to either take advantage of that future or avoid that future. It could be a negative future that we don't want, so a lot to unpack, but I'll let you tell me where you want to start. But what are some of the future scenarios you see for wash? Is it all rainbows and unicorns? Are you worried? I mean, do we see challenges? So let's talk about that. Where do you think we're going to be with wash in 10 to 20 years?
Speaker 2:I think maybe the place to start is the most probable future, and that definitely does have a constraint vibe to it.
Speaker 2:I've spoken to a lot of people who work in NGOs in the wash space and one of the things that they say is that this funding for these wash projects and they go in and they place this wonderful technology in these communities that need the water or the sanitation, but the limitation that they have is that within two years that equipment is either vandalized or stolen or broken because of lack of maintenance, because communities they've played in, they have day-to-day issues of not having food money.
Speaker 2:These things are almost like a nice to have and so, if we continue the way we're going, money is being found to put in these solutions, but within two years time, if those solutions break, that community is back to where they've started and so there'll be little improvement and the statistics will remain the same.
Speaker 2:I think right now, as we stand, if we continue at the same rate that we're progressing at, it's going to take six times that to meet the safe water goal for SDG6. And it's going to take us five times the current rate to meet the sanitation goal, because in five years time we have to walk six times harder than we already have in order to actually get to a point that's acceptable and the way we're going that's not going to happen. I think that kind of leads to the question that the solution is not just about technology or money. It's about understanding the environment that you're putting certain technologies in. It's about working with the community so they understand and value what you're putting in, and also having some sort of economic potential with the system that you're putting in that allows itself to actually almost self-maintain, so that you have some sort of business case to it, that there's a value proposition for someone to keep it operational.
Speaker 1:So you see a future you think there's. The most probable future is one that is somewhere between transformation and business as usual, but you're cautiously optimistic about how that will support WASH. But I think what I hear you saying is that, to get to that future that you desire, there's some things that you need to backcast into strategies for today, and I think you've talked about a number of things, and certainly, maybe some security for the systems, the operational systems that are installed. I've heard the same thing that you go out, donate or fund and install this wonderful equipment to provide water and then bad people come and steal the equipment because the equipment's worth a lot of money in the marketplace and they'll sell it Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes snive in bad people, it's just desperate people.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and I hear you talking about some strategies for today that will, based on your kind of vision, the scenario. You have some strategies, some issues that need to be addressed today to help people get to that preferred future in WASH. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but tell us about some of those strategies.
Speaker 2:So when I spoke to some of the people walking in these donor funded programs, the one thing no-transcript we need to move away from solving these projects. Just as engineers so in the past, when we look at good engineering projects, that's the tallest building or the road with the most amount of lanes. Good projects now are the ones that includes technology, but community economy and environment, and so even when we get this funding, we can't expect the funding to only fund the technology or their equipment. We need to actually start the process where we allow adequate budget for the educational side and in order to set up some sort of economic system, because economy is what will allow these systems to be sustainable. We also have to be very cognizant about the environment and the communities that we're putting this in.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes, even though we don't mean to, we think we have the right solution, but we're not in certain communities' context, and so spending that money and that resources upfront to really get the right solution for that context is really, really important, and also spending the time to have the community buy in into what you're putting, because I mean, if we put ourselves in some of these communities' shoes right, historically they've been drawing water from these rivers for generations.
Speaker 2:It's never been something that they pay for, especially when money is limited. To have now to pay for this water that has been historically free, it is strange, it is in some ways unacceptable, and so, if we can educate that the water is no longer as clean as we think, it, is that spending time walking kilometers to a river? I think there's some stat that in some developing countries, seven out of 10 households actually use the girls or the young woman in the family to spend the whole day to get the water from the river, and because of that they're not educated, because they can't go to school, and because of that you have certain and the gender-based social ills that creep in, and so all of these things can change. But it's very difficult to sell value unless we start right from the beginning, and once we have people wanting it, it makes it sustainable.
Speaker 1:I think you've highlighted that when we think about the future of wash and you are cautiously optimistic about the future of wash and you're telling us that it's not just a technical lens through which we think about the future of wash, I hear you saying that there are environmental, there are social, emotional and ethical issues that also need to be considered in a more holistic approach to the future of wash. That it's not simply coming in with a check or here's your truck with all the equipment, we'll assemble it. Good luck. You need to be in communication with the community. You need to have their buy-in emotionally, socially, culturally, not understanding the technical ability to operate it, which requires education. So I hear you talking about a multifaceted framework of strategies to implement today to get us to that preferred future of wash that you envision. Is that fair?
Speaker 2:It is, and I think with most of these things, they can actually act as a catalyst for accelerated development. So if you're able to create a business case with this, so I think in India there are cases where people run sanitation blocks and they collect the waste and they digest it for biogas and then they sell that biogas. That can almost become a franchise where other people want to do it now because it's a business, it's an income, but it's also solving a social problem and I really think these things aren't unimaginable, these solutions. It just requires a little bit of a shift in how we solve traditional infrastructure challenges.
Speaker 1:Let me flip the coin, and in the world of foresight, we talk about signals of change and often that environmental scanning, the horizon scannings, in my opinion, probably the most important part of scenario planning. If you're not paying attention, looking at things, interpreting, discussing signals of change, you may end up with bad scenarios. And so do you see signals of change that are possibly leading to a collapse scenario for WASH? Do you see, for example, companies that are funding and supporting WASH-based initiatives maybe leaving developing countries or developed countries and moving somewhere else where the financial support for these WASH initiatives may disappear? Do you see governments turning to other challenges when it comes to funding? Do you see communities changing their interest in WASH? Are there any signals of change that would cause you to be concerned about a collapse scenario for the future of WASH?
Speaker 2:It is a fear of mine. I mean, if we think about it, we've been living in relatively conflict-free times. I mean not in the last, maybe few years, but over the last decade and a bit there has been a lot more emphasis placed on developmental issues. But if other issues like conflict in the world grows, if there are other economic challenges presenting themselves climate change, as we start seeing the effect of climate change more there is a fear that the world's focus will shift away from these challenges that they've been placing donor funding for and programs for. Because I think sometimes when you're working at something and it's not solving itself, the motivation to solve it reduces.
Speaker 2:And I think because of the breakdown of some of this infrastructure, the lack of maintenance, it could be very demotivational, especially if there are the more immediate problems that show themselves. Also, the breakdown of trust in some programs where the incorrect selection of technology is used or there's a lack of education of why we're doing certain things. It can create mistrust between those who are trying to solve these problems and those of the local communities who move back traditional practices. So if taking away all the progress has been made, no pressure on you, of course, right.
Speaker 1:No pressure on you, right as the consultant, right. But you have to do that, you have to build that trust.
Speaker 2:Yes, but I think that's where we're heading from, a point where it's not just a single party or a single solution, or it's technology or it's money, but I think, in general, infrastructure is starting to be a place where the solution is not just traditional, it's now multi-disciplinary. And I think that's what I've been loving about foresight it really does allow us to look at traditional problems from many different lenses, not just in context of maybe social, environment, political, economic lenses, but also within time. What are the possibilities that can exist?
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, semester, I appreciate your wisdom on the future of wash in the world. You've taught us quite a bit that we didn't know and some things we need to think about on the possible futures of wash in the world, and I want to ask you tell us where we can get a hold of you if we have further questions about wash in the world, and let us know if you have any writings or publications that we could take a look at related to the future of wash.
Speaker 2:Okay, You're welcome to find me on LinkedIn. It's semester jaguant, and in my LinkedIn profile I do have a link to a lot of the pieces that I have put out on the subject, but also on the APF website For those who are familiar with it. A lot of my blog articles are on that platform as well. You're also welcome to get hold of me. My email address is semesterjgmailcom.
Speaker 1:And APF, the Association of Professional Futures, a great place to go for thought-provoking articles on the future of many different things. Thank you for listening to the Water Force Site podcast powered by the Aqualars Group. For more information, please visit us at aqualarscom or follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter.